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Robert Roenspies
Church Outreach Program
Profile
In early 1998, former members of the Worldwide Church of God throughout the U.S. started receiving unsolicited packets of printed material from a group which labelled itself Church Outreach Program (COP). The material was a series of articles by an anonymous author purporting to reveal amazing new Bible understanding. Readers were tantalized with promises that the author would eventually reveal his identity, if they persevered by ordering future installments of the articles, and audio tapes of messages by the author as well. If an inquirer ordered and listened to the first audio tape, he would still not know who the anonymous speaker on the tape was.
However, in a few months the identity of the mystery teacher became common knowledge in exWCG circles. His name was Robert Roenspies, and his family had been involved with the ministry of Herbert Armstrong for many decades. Robert's father had been one of the earliest unpaid "Local Elders" in Armstrong's Radio Church of God. (The name of the organization was changed to Worldwide Church of God in 1968.) He had a brother who was also a minister in the WCG, although Robert himself was never ordained as a minister in that organization.
Roenspies does not have a website or a public ministry, so it is not easy to obtain accurate documentation on his teachings without wading through all his extensive writings and audio messages. And some consider his reasonings difficult to follow, so explanations about his teachings by a variety of listeners may vary from his actual intent. After preliminary material was posted in this section regarding his teachings, a Roenspies supporter contacted this website with complaints that some of the information was inaccurate. He included some corrections of typographical and citation errors, and noted some clarifications of the exact nature of some of Roenspies teachings. The technical corrections have been applied to the material below, and some of the details have been adjusted to reflect what this supporter explained regarding some issues. He has now also provided some specific quotations from Roenspies' material which he believes clarify some of Roenspies' teachings. Those quotations have now been added to the documentation section at the end of this profile.
As is noted on the main page of the Field Guide, it is the goal of this website to portray as accurately as possible the actual claims of those groups and teachers profiled. The intent is not to misrepresent the teachings of any individual or group, but to call attention to those teachings about which legitimate concerns might arise. All corrections and clarifications offered will be carefully considered and incorporated promptly if found to be valid.
Commentary and evaluation are another matter entirely, however. It is obvious that such teachers and groups—and their supporters—will not agree with negative evaluation of their ministries or teachings. In the case of Roenspies, the concerns are not his exact teachings about prophetic speculations, but rather his claims related to his own role and the role of his followers. It is the position of this website that those who are swept up into acceptance of his grandiose and exclusive claims are being taken further away from the Simplicity that is in Christ, rather than closer to it.
The Claims
Robert Roenspies, who carries the title of "General Pastor" of the Church Outreach Program group, claims to be the only direct spokesman for God on earth at this time. And as such, he claims to be restoring knowledge lost since the first century to the remnant of the Worldwide Church of God. In spite of the fact that he claims that Herbert Armstrong was God's representative during Armstrong's lifetime, Roenspies asserts that the information in the Church Outreach Program's literature and on its tapes was not understood by Herbert Armstrong. This includes dogmatic assertions that:
Only 144,000 will be resurrected to spiritual life (or "changed" if still living) at the return of Christ. Only this number are "True Christians."
The Seven Churches of Asia in the Book of Revelation are sequential church eras. The last three eras have existed in the Twentieth Century. The Church of God, Seventh Day (the group where Herbert Armstrong got his start in ministry) was the Sardis Era, the Worldwide Church of God under Herbert Armstrong was the Philadelphian Era, and the WCG under Armstrong successor Joseph Tkach, Sr. (and, after his death, Joseph Tkach, Jr.) was/is the Laodicean era.
The truth about man's "free will" is that man has no free will—it is only an illusion. Those who will be part of the 144,000 are all predestined to that role. Those alive now who are so predestined and who are "Philadelphian" will ultimately understand and accept the teachings of Roenspies. Those who are "Laodicean," characterized by "lukewarmness," are predestined to die supporting the work of the Two Witnesses.
Roenspies' ministry is the only safe haven for those remnants of the Philadelphian Era who are now stuck in the Laodicean era.
The Allure
Roenspies does not hide the fact that he has no real interest in reaching "outsiders" with his message. He believes his ministry to be to a small End Time remnant, primarily made up of former WCG members. Thus he does not waste any time establishing any of the "basic doctrines" of the WCG such as Sabbath observance. He implies that in all of those areas he follows closely the teachings of Herbert Armstrong. He rather focuses on introducing to his readers and listeners those few specific concepts in which he differs from the standard WCG perspective—his "new truth." This is evidently for the purpose of preparing this Remnant for its role as the Bride of Christ when He returns.
Thus his allure to some of those who accept all of the basic fundamental teachings of HWA has more to do with his style of ministry than with the fact that he accepts most of the same doctrines taught by numerous WCG split-off groups. It is likely that those who are attracted to his ministry have a need for:
A "prophetic" leader who is bombastic, dogmatic, self-assured, self-aggrandizing, and who leaves no question that he considers himself to be God's Spokesman for the End Times
Continual "fresh revelation" to keep from getting "bored with religion"
In addition, his notion of predestination can be very comforting to those whose experience in the WCG left them with the feeling that their own spiritual growth was related to actively yielding to the will of God in their life. If that approach left them feeling that they had to continually struggle, never quite sure if they were measuring up and, as HWA put it, "qualifying for the Kingdom," they might well feel relief at hearing Roenspies' alternative perspective. Under Roenspies' approach, "what they know" and "to whom they look for leadership" may be all that they perceive is important, rather than what they do in their own daily life. If they accept the Roenspies package, it is "proof" that they are "predestined" to be in the company of 144,000 Chosen Ones.
Concerns
As with a number of other teachers gathering followers from the break up of the Worldwide Church of God, Roenspies' ministry has several characteristics which ought to be carefully examined by those interested in his ministry. These include:
Unsupported claims to be the only, or the main, spokesman for God on earth.
Acceptance of a role of spiritual superiority over followers.
Unsupported claims of unique divine revelation on matters not clear in the scriptures
Important information that is cause for even greater concerns about the role of Roenspies was added below on 4/29/03.
Unanswered Questions
Robert Roenspies' daughter, Marsha, died in June, 1998, at the age of 22. News reports in the local paper, The Courier News, of an investigation into her death left some very puzzling questions regarding the situation surrounding her death. The 8/15/98 edition of the paper noted about an inquest that had been held to investigate the death:
"Marsha Roenspies suffered from kidney problems, pneumonia, bedsores, peritonitis, infection of the heart, and a ruptured spleen caused by blunt trauma. But the investigation into her demise ended Friday after a Kane County coroner's jury ruled at an inquest that her death was from natural causes."
Local law enforcement became involved in the case shortly after paramedics responded to a call from Marsha's home where she had collapsed, and took her to an area hospital, where she died three days later, never recovering from a coma.
"Her physical appearance and condition prompted hospital authorities to notify police. … Medical personnel told police Roenspies was in poor physical shape, with dirty, matted, lice-ridden hair, including her pubic area, swollen legs and "floppy feet," which prevented her from walking. They likened her condition to a neglected nursing home patient, according to one report."
The police report made on that day clarified just how much she looked like a nursing home patient:
"Ofc [investigating officer] asked how old the victim was. He [Robert Roenspies] said she was 22 years old. By the looks of what Ofc could see of the victim's body when Ofc arrived, she appeared to be elderly and was surprised by the age stated."
Although the inquest did not find enough evidence at the time to press charges against her parents, Robert and Judith Roenspies, a number of members of Roenspies' Church Outreach Program have only recently found out more of the documented details of this troubling case.
Tom Serine is one of those members. Serine had been part of the COP since 1998 and was the only paid employee working for the ministry. He worked closely on a daily basis with Roenspies, and was at one time totally convinced of Roenspies' claims. Serine left the organization in 2002, in part because of the troubling documentation he discovered about the circumstances surrounding Marsha's death, and in part because of serious concerns over financial matters involving Robert Roenspies. Click here to read Tom Serine's personal statement about his involvement with Roenspies, and to see the documentation that led a significant proportion of COP members to leave the organization.
Evaluation
The nature of the claims of Robert Roenspies make it impossible to compromise on evaluating his ministry. One cannot pick and choose among his teachings and decide he is merely a useful teacher with some good teaching and some error. Either he is what he claims to be—God's only spokesman on earth at this time—or he is a false prophet. It is left to the reader to carefully consider his claims, including the attitude, tone, "spirit," and content of the statements by Roenspies in the documentation below.
Documentation
Excerpts from Roenspies' comments in the Church Outreach Program lessons
"Herbert Armstrong was a servant of God just as—and I know that many of you do not believe this—Joseph Tkach Sr. was a servant of God. We will go through that later. I loved both of these men. I knew both of these men very well. I loved both of them when they were alive, and I now continue to love both of them as they are now dead. And, I expect to love them forever in God's kingdom. I look forward to that."
***
"God ALWAYS provides ONE servant at a time to lead His Church or Era. He leads ONE servant and reveals ONLY to him what God's people need to know to fulfill His plan. He NEVER works through four or five "would be" CLONES that vote THEMSELVES into office or start THEIR own work simply because they did not have the patience or the faith to "go with the flow" and actually leave it up to God! God has NEVER forsaken His people. He will always make it abundantly clear WHO He is working through. God ALWAYS sends His servant with His REVEALED MESSAGE."
"Don't worry. YOU will not have to "choose." God's Spirit WILL DRAW you to the message WHEN you hear it and to His servant."
***
" However, as this lesson is coming out in June 1997, ANYONE who, from this time on that says there are more than 144,000 firstfruits is a LIAR. This is not by what I think, but by what the Holy, INSPIRED Word of God SAYS." …
"Remember, you haven't heard the true plan yet. You didn't even know that there are only 144,000 firstfruits. So , do not start putting YOUR theory of salvation on me and trying to tell me that I am wrong. You didn't even know this, and it was right in front of you all the time."
***
"I said in LESSON ONE that I thought that I would be forced to reveal my name by the third lesson. This is the actual quote: "Brethren, right now I am not revealing who I am. However, by the third lesson, I will be forced to." But, when the lesson came out, it was announced, to my surprise, in local churches that although the Worldwide Church of God did not publish this, people could go ahead and read the material. Things had changed by that time and they were not seeking out and censoring anyone that had a doctrine that differed from theirs. So, in light of this, I have decided to reveal my name in the upcoming taped album that will soon be out. Now, if you receive LESSON THREE and there is not a request form for an album, you should receive the three-tape album called THE LIGHT. That will be coming to you automatically."
The following quotations were provided by a Roenspies associate. The quotations were cut and pasted directly into this document from his communication, so all punctuation, grammar, capitalization, etc. reflect his choices.
Sermon Tape titled "Circumcision and Cycles---Part 5
…And everyone coming up in the Great Last Day, as Abraham is brought back up? He’s brought back up physically to live forever, to be one of the "ancient ones," to be one of the witnesses to testimony, and have a testimony of Jesus Christ, and to tell everything of what happened back then. But he too will be brought up just like he came out of his mother’s womb. And he’ll have a foreskin again. And they’ll all, all human beings, all the males will have to be circumcised in that Great Last Day. And it is a covenant that stands with God! When He makes a covenant He means it, and it lasts forever! He doesn’t care if people break it. The covenant still stands! It’s there. That’s why, as we explained, first the people when they came to Mount Sinai made a covenant with God and says, "Lord, Lord! We’ll keep it! We’ll keep it! You write it! We’ll keep it!" He wrote it! They broke it!…
Sermon tape titled: "The Seven Churches"
…So, when Joe came in---I should say Mr. Tkach. I knew him personally. He was a family friend for many, many years as Mr. Armstrong was. And I have always loved both of them and will continue to. And you should too. He was a servant of God---Joe Tkach Senior. And as you look at the ten-year history now that he is dead, you see that he fulfilled what God wanted him to fulfill, didn’t he? Ooh, how he did a good job, didn’t he?
Could you have done a better job? I don’t think so. It’s amazing!
It went from $220 million dollars a year to where they can’t pay their bills. It went from a 140,000 people attending the Feast down to what? Maybe 60,000? And I’m telling you that 40 or 50% of those who are still in Worldwide are still Philadelphians. They’re still tithing. They’re still supporting The Church. The Laodiceans are not. And the Philadelphians are starting to hold back more and more. And the work’s going down more and more because the Philadelphians just, or the Laodiceans just don’t have it and they’re not backing the work. In fact, there is no leader of the Laodicean era anymore. Joe Tkach was their first and their last leader, because God does not muddy the waters with all kinds of servants running around on this earth.
You know that The Church is going down---the Laodiceans, the Worldwide, and it’ll continue to do so at least for a period of time.
So, this is what we have---this lukewarmness. Look at what they’ve preached. "Oh, there’s no Sabbath," but yet they keep going on the Sabbath. A little confusing, isn’t it? "Oh, there’s no Holy Days, but we, we’ll keep those Holy Days, but you don’t have to. We’re here on our best behavior but maybe in a few years, or maybe next year, we won’t keep them at all. We’ll do our own days." This is lukewarm!
"Oh, we believe that we’re Firstfruits. Oh, but we believe that we have to earn it too."
So, we see that Mr. Tkach Senior did a good job at doing this Laodicean era, didn’t he? That angel was working, wasn’t it?
It must fulfill this. It has to happen. They had no choice as we, the Philadelphians, had no choice where we were.
God doesn’t leave anything up to you or me. He has it all done perfectly well, perfectly planned out ahead…
Sermon tape titled: "The Seven Churches"
…So, we see a history of The Church without even going into a lot of secular history---just out of the words of God.
Now, knowing and being able to appreciate a little bit clearer because we’ve been going through this Laodicean era right now, and having that vomit thrown on us, what He has allowed with the Brethren in these other eras of The Church, so are the Laodiceans all that bad, Brethren? No!
They’re our Brethren. They’re Firstfruits. There are many tares in there just like there are in the Philadelphians. There’s tares here too, but we’re talking about the Firstfruits. That’s why God says, "Don’t judge one another because you don’t know what you’re judging. I have a Plan! I’m working it out! You don’t even understand Satan yet. That’s the one you should judge, not your brothers."
Sermon tape titled: "The Seven Churches"
… Getting back to the original question. "Is the Worldwide Church of God part of God’s Church?" The answer is, "Yes! They are your Brethren."
We just read what happened to the seven eras. We see what happened to those foul things that were going on within The Church.
Is God happy with what Satan has done within His Church? No, but He’s going to kill him. He has His vengeance against him.
Stop judging and hating God’s people.
There is one scripture that I did not read and I’m going to go back to it. Turn over to Revelation Twelve, verse 16 and 17.
Do you think the Laodiceans are lost? Are they lost Brethren? They’re not lost. They’re Firstfruits, at least some of them are. We’ve read all the other seven eras of the Church, and the conclusion, but we didn’t read the conclusion here of the Laodiceans. We’re going to read it right here---Revelation 12, verse 16 and 17.
Revelation 12:16 "And the earth helped the woman..." - This was the Church. This was the Philadelphian era of the Church. We know we’re going to be protected somehow. I don’t know how. When it’s time we’ll know, I guess. He just says He’s going to, "... and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth."
This is all talking - you can read the scriptures - this chapter. It’s when the Church is fleeing. Satan wants to kill it because he sees it’s the very Bride of Christ. And if he can kill them, and kill the Laodiceans, Christ is a liar. God’s a liar and he’ll live forever. And he won’t get thrown in the lake of fire. And then God loses, but God doesn’t lose. And Satan is going into the lake of fire, but look what he says here in verse 17. This is your Brethren. This is the Laodicean era. These are Firstfruits - for a purpose!
Rev 12:17 "And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed..." - Who’s the only ones left? The Laodiceans, but look at it! There’s been a transformation here. Something has happened! "… which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ."
How does that happen, Brethren? Well that happens, you have to remember what’s happening during those three and a half years. The two witnesses come on the scene with all the power of God given to them. They’re His witnesses, His representatives. With all the miracles that they want to do - well, that they’re inspired to do by God, plus all those Trumps will be opened.
The Philadelphians are protected somewhere somehow. Whatever, whatever His protection is, they’re protected.
The Laodiceans are still here. Those Firstfruits are still here…
[later in the same tape…]
… He says He’s going to knock on the door. How is He going to knock? He’s going to knock on the door with the two witnesses. They are His servants. They have His voice. And the sheep will hear that voice. And their ears will go up. And their eyes will see. And they’ll come!
And they’ll rally around the two witnesses that are possibly going all over the world.
It doesn’t say they’re going to be in Jerusalem for 42 months. It says the Gentiles are going to be there. He says these witnesses are going to die there, but they may be traveling all over the world. And wherever, they’re going to be accessible to the Laodiceans. And the Laodiceans will know. And they will realize immediately, and they will continue then, at that point. They’ll go back and they will keep those commandments. And they’ll have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
And Satan’s going even to be madder at them than he was. And he’s going to stir up this world, and the people in the world that he has total control of. And then they’re going to kill all the Laodiceans.
He said it was going to happen. It’s going to happen, and that’s the way it’s going to happen.
Are they your brothers? Yes! When you’re protected, and it may not be in a Hotel with room service, but you will be protected. We all pray it’s going to be room service, but you know? I kind of think it’s not. But, well, if you don’t ask, you don’t get. So we, we’ll throw out our "ask" and then, of course, He’ll do His, His will, but you’re going to be hearing the News reports.
You’re going to be hearing, and seeing your Brethren killed, slaughtered, murdered - their children killed. You’re going to be praying for them.
Don’t come down too hard on them. Realize what God is doing. Realize that we are Philadelphians and He has a different work, a different purpose, for us…
Comments by former WCG members who have listened to Roenspies' tapes and/or read the Lessons:
The following short excerpts were gleaned from posts on Internet forums serving former WCG members:
" He assembles his material in such a way that you're not supposed to find out his name until after reading 3 articles, and listening to 3 tapes. He says this is to guard against anyone "following a man, vs following the message" but to me it's just a sophomoric gimmick to create a little mystique to help hold people's interest."
"He believes that only 144,000 people will be in the first resurrection and become spirit beings—while all other human beings will gain immortality as physical human beings!!! Makes me think he probably doesn't have any children, because he thinks that this is great exhilarating spiritual news that should bring new heights of joy and ecstasy into our spiritual lives. Well, if he thinks that people should be thrilled to spend centuries asleep and more centuries sitting atop commodes—he's got a pretty low view of what fulfillment is. "
"Roenspies is guilty of all the standard pathology of ex-WCG wannabes, such as claiming on one tape "your bible study didn't reveal this to you, my bible study didn't reveal this to me!" followed by a claim of direct inspiration. "
" He does not answer questions you send him, but rather advises you to listen to his tapes and that will answer your questions. "In order to properly and completely answer each one of your questions, it would require a sermon or series of questions". All I asked him was if he got his teachings from Jehovah Witnesses and Seventh Day Adventists. But of course all he sent me was a form letter. The form letter ends with "You will be hearing and seeing things that have never entered your mind before. You are going to understand things that you have always had questions about. It will ALL be GOOD. And, it will only get better and better." The idea is to get you to listen to lots of his tapes and then forget your questions."
"He measures conversion by how you agree with him. Things he has recently come to believe were OK to have wrong when HWA was alive, since God hadn't revealed them yet, but now that it's Bob's hour, as soon as he teaches you something, you must accept it, after your legitimate questions are addressed. If you don't—you just don't have God's spirit."
This profile of the ministry of Robert Roenspies is part of a larger article on ministries which appeal to former members of the Worldwide Church of God. To return to the introductory material of that article, which clarifies some of the points in this profile, go to:
Teachers with an appeal for former followers of Herbert W. Armstrong
Bibliography
Robert Roenspies is just one of many would-be prophecy pundits in the Wild World of Religion. The following books contain documentation and commentary on the many varieties of End Times Prophecy speculation, and assist the reader in evaluating the validity of the claims of the pundits.
Armageddon Now! The Premillenarian Response to Russia and Israel Since 1917
Wilson, Dwight
Baker Book House, Gr. Rapids MI
1977
(history of prophetic speculation from 1917-1977)
Doomsday Delusions: What's Wrong with Predictions About the End of the World?
Pate, C. Marvin; Haines, Calvin B. Jr.
Intervarsity Press, Downer's Grove IL
1995
The Gentile Times Reconsidered: Chronology and Christ’s Return
Jonsson, Carl Olof
Commentary Press, Atlanta GA
1983, 1998
(evaluation of the Jehovah's Witness speculation on End Time prophecy)
The Last Days Are Here Again
Kyle, Richard
Baker Book House, Gr. Rapids MI
1998
(history of prophetic speculation)
Naming the Antichrist: The History of an American Obsession
Fuller, Robert
Oxford University Press, New York NY
1995
The Sign of the Last Days: When?
Jonsson, Carl Olof and Herbst, Wolfgang
Commentary Press, Atlanta GA
1987
(overview of Jehovah's Witness speculations on prophecy)
Soothsayers of the Second Advent
Alnor, William M.
Fleming H. Revell Co., Old Tappan NJ
1989
(Profiles of a number of current prophecy teachers)
When Prophecy Fails: A Social and Psychological Study of a Modern Group that Predicted the Destruction of the World
Festinger, Leon; Riecken, Henry W.; Schachter, Stanley
Harper & Row, Publishers, New York NY
1956Author Festinger, a social psychologist, coined the term "cognitive dissonance," and introduced it to the general public in this work. The book is considered a classic in the field of Social Psychology. Festinger and his social-psych team were interested in testing a theory they had about how people in religious groups which dogmatically predict a date for "the end of the world" respond when the prediction fails. They happened to stumble on a small group just forming around a woman who claimed to be receiving messages from extra-terrestrials. She declared that a great series of natural disasters would occur on earth on December 21 of the current year, and that only those who heeded the messages of her unearthly contacts would be rescued. The book first surveys the history of "End Times prophecy" teachers and groups from the first century to the 20th. And then it describes how they were able to infiltrate this growing cult with research assistants and obtain reports of the reactions of the members before and after the date of the predicted "End." For more details on the book, see the When Prophecy Fails section of this Field Guide.
When Time Shall Be No More: Prophecy Belief in Modern American Culture
Boyer, Paul
The Belknap Press of Harvard University Press, Cambridge MA
1992
End Time Visions: The Road to Armageddon?
Abanes, Richard
Broadman & Holman Publishers, Nashville TN
1998
(history of prophetic speculation)
Check out the Field Guide Profile on the End Times Prophecy Movement for more information on related topics.
Unless otherwise noted, all original material on this Field Guide website
is © 2001-2006 by Pam Dewey.Careful effort has been made to give credit as clearly as possible to any specific material quoted or ideas extensively adapted from any one resource. Corrections and clarifications regarding citations for any source material are welcome, and will be promptly added to any sections which are found to be inadequately documented as to source.
Pam Dewey
Pam Dewey
Pam Dewey
